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Letters to the Editor

Kahn’s response to Post


BY Phyllis Kahn
PUBLISHED: 10/28/2008

Although political advisors often say ignoring political attacks is the best philosophy, the diatribe in McCain supporter Andy Post’s column calls for a reply.

Taxes are the price we pay for civilization (and government services). The University of Minnesota is a tax-supported institution and Minnesota students pay higher tuition than Wisconsin students because we put less tax revenue into our higher education institutions than Wisconsin does. A student at a tax-supported institution can hardly complain about a representative who votes to raise the taxes required to support that institution. A tuition freeze instead of increased state financial support is a pathway to institutional mediocrity and a degree reduced in value.

Post also identifies me as a Brooklyn, New York native as an implied pejorative. Our state is stronger when people move here by choice. My University connections include a husband who is a professor in the math department and a son who is a graduate (another child used our reciprocity agreement with Wisconsin to go there). Not to mention my almost 10 years as a research faculty member in the Genetics and Cell Biology department here, and my current services on the advisory board of the Joint Degree Program in Law, Health and Life Sciences (longer than my opponent's University connection).

Minnesota needs native-born and transplanted talent. My family moved here with two very expensive technological educations not paid for with Minnesota tax dollars. Minnesota has specifically benefitted from other political immigrants including Martin Sabo, Keith Ellison, Paul Wellstone, Hubert Humphrey and my wonderful friend, the late Allan Spear. Former New Yorkers on the other side include Norm Coleman and Arne Carlson.

I can't remember a vote against “more lighting for back alleys” but anti-light pollution measures put light on the streets instead of in the sky and have important energy and money saving implications. Just check out the latest edition of National Geographic (“The End of Night: Why We Need Darkness”).

As for taking campaign literature, Post fails to say that the case was dismissed.

This campaign deserves a serious discussion of the issues of the day, the record of each candidate in proposing and implementing solutions and honest, intelligent discussion. I appreciated the Daily's endorsement last week and hope to live up to it in the coming legislative session.

Phyllis Kahn

State Representative 59B

Comments

The Minnesota Daily wants to host a forum for discussion regarding issues and stories regarding the University of Minnesota and surrounding communities. However, the online comments should not be used to threaten or defame. This is a place for people to be heard, and want to contribute to discussion. Those who persist to use expletives, inappropriate, racist, defamatory or abusive postings risk losing the privilege to post.

Wow.

"""""Taxes are the price we pay for civilization (and government services). The University of Minnesota is a tax-supported institution and Minnesota students pay higher tuition than Wisconsin students because we put less tax revenue into our higher education institutions than Wisconsin does. A student at a tax-supported institution can hardly complain about a representative who votes to raise the taxes required to support that institution. A tuition freeze instead of increased state financial support is a pathway to institutional mediocrity and a degree reduced in value.""""""

^Taxes are the fees we are FORCED to pay when Dems like Kahn FORCE their horrific social programs and subsidies onto us. The very fact that schools like the U of MN and U of WI are public and supported by taxpayer money is the cause for high tuition costs. This is because if the school systems were 100% private, they would be able to compete more competitively for students and have other schools rise up to try to get in on the college business. Prices would be forced DOWN. Statists like Kahn think it's dandy to have taxpayers subsidize other students and then when prices go up from inflation and lack of competition, they think the solution is MORE government intervention. Amazing. Therefore I/we have EVERY right to "complain" about a rep who wants to raise taxes to support the institution. It's the equivalent of saying you can solve a drug addiction by giving that addict another fix. It will only create MORE problems in the financial structure.

Couldn't have said it better

Couldn't have said it better myself. Time for Kahn to be gone.

How cliche

Hey, Zach, you obviously have a grasp of the unsophisticated, anti-government approach. Congratulations, you recited general talking points. You have proven you have a memory, not intelligence.

Yes you have a "right" to complain, but your logic is unfounded and over-generalized. Therefore, it is dismissible. A purely competitive system is exclusionary. Therefore, education would be rationed for only the top tier intellects. That rationing would lead to greater competition for finite spots, driving prices higher. That is basic economics. That is how the markets work. Such a system would lead to high education being left in fewer hands and, hey!, an elite-centric structure and high power concentration.

Also, you note that prices inflate but fail to account for the fact that that is because the dollar tuition is denoted in has inflated. Therefore, there is not necessarily any more public money being allocated to the University once you adjust for inflation. Surely, you have a grasp of that.

The point of subsidies is to correct for market failures such as what I described. Not all are effective. But giving greater access for all increases the overall well-being of society. I wager you, Zach, are too solipsistic to understand that not everything that benefits you is tangible or material, but a wealthier and smarter world is for the better.

Presumably, because you uppercase certain words for effect, you do not have a real argument. Just an anti-government bias. Melodramatic verbs do not make a case.

If you actually had to compete in the system you propose, based on your present argument, you would be among the left out.

Basic economics? Ever heard of supply and demand?

"A purely competitive system is exclusionary. Therefore, education would be rationed for only the top tier intellects. That rationing would lead to greater competition for finite spots, driving prices higher."

^^A purely competitive system LOWERS prices. THAT is "basic economics", more specifically simple supply-and-demand economics. When you have a system that is federally subsidized, demands MORE subsidies once their subsidies fail to do what they are intended for, it only messes it up for EVERYONE because the public funding prevents a pure market competition. And then you have to figure in the devaluation of currency from inflation.
When prices are lowered, it helps EVERYONE, not just the "top-tiered." Typically liberal response.

"The point of subsidies is to correct for market failures such as what I described. Not all are effective. But giving greater access for all increases the overall well-being of society"

^^What market failures? Example? Any such "failure" of a market only comes with public/gov intervention IN the free market. There are NO such things as market failures in a free market, which we do NOT have in schooling or in America at ALL.

"Presumably, because you uppercase certain words for effect, you do not have a real argument. Just an anti-government bias. Melodramatic verbs do not make a case."

^^And using words like "solipstic" just makes you look like an elitist douche. Your point?
I use upper-case to make the emphasis on words only possible in verbal dialogue.
Being anti-government is a good thing. The opposite is actually trusting your government, and given the fact that, among other things, they were responsible for the subprime crisis, the "War" on "Terror", etc., it would be YOU who is in the wrong here.

""If you actually had to compete in the system you propose, based on your present argument, you would be among the left out.""

^^How? Do you have a magic ball that tells you how much money I have? And like I said, subsidies create price distortion. The "market failures" you describe can only come from such distortions, then you want MORE. Amazing.

[[A suggestion: read Ludwig Von Mises, Murray Rothbard, and put Keynes/Krugman down. For good.]]

My.

Zach, stop clinging to your anarcho-capitalist classics. Prices lower only if there are is supply to meet demand. You argument is counterintuitive. Education supply is not infinite. If education is cheaper in the way you believe the market would provide, then there will not be high pay for teachers . Thus, teachers will be discouraged from the industry. Would you subsidize their pay to prevent that? That means education opportunities would be less available, and would have to be rationed by price based on intellectual competition. That is how it would be exclusionary.

I am not a "liberal". Classically, yes. The fact that you think I am by default proves you would not do well in a purely competitive system. You are an ideologue who views the world through rigid principles and an inflexible mind. The market fixes everything, government ruins it all. God forbid you do some analysis. Anti-establishmentarian economic philosophy does not provide concrete answers to anything. You likely cling to that philosophy because your absolutist arguments do not stand up to critique.

Actually, most people would agree that sophisticated language is a good trait. Actually, it is indicative of better education. People who are prone to mocking it are likely those that think they are so right they are above critique. By the way, using "douche" has no place in reasoned conversation. If you cannot make your case without being vulgar, you will never be taken seriously. Cries of "elitism" are just the crutch for those that cannot make a cogent argument that critics would respect.

Laying the blame on the government for everything is a bit odd, as it presumes everything would be rosy without it. People overwhlemingly still rely on a government for the cohesion of society. You likely will offer a rejoineder along the lines of "coercion", "corruption", and "freedom", but remember that absolute freedom is anarchy. For capitalism to flourish, there needs to be law for things such as property rights. Otherwise the market disappears. Perhaps you find anarchy appealing, so I suggest you travel to Somalia to experience it first hand. Anarchy, like libertarianism and socialism, only are appealing in the ivory tower. In the real world they would only be practical if everyone believed the same way.

In a textbook sense, subsidies create distortions. But the market does not exist in a different plane from society. And thank you for the straw man. I never said that I want "more" subsidies. The market fails because not everyone in a purely competitive system would start at the same level, economically, socially, etc. In fact, your theory would only be true if such a condition did not exist. If you think an etch-a-sketch rewrite of the system would yield positive results, I cannot see how, as it would be heavily skewed against the disadvantaged. How useful is your view if it is entirely theoretical? How could it be transplanted into an established society?

I have read Von Mises and Rothbard. I have also read Keynes, Hayek, Friedman, and many others. Oddly enough, most who hold your views default to Von Mises or Rothbard in arguments. Again, it proves memory, nothing else. Maybe reading them opened your eyes, or something, but they are not biblical in any sense.

Funny how you could not refute my comment about inflation, and only make the most basic of basic statements about economics. I may be wrong, but I wager a good amount of your time is devoted to philosophy. Since you seem to claim understanding of the principles of the dismal science, I suggest you actually apply some humility to your argument. You start with the syllogism that the government caused all ills and that without it things would be different, therefore being anti-government is a virtuous thing. That is not a testable hypothesis.

As an economics student, I find your arguments unconvincing and completely overgeneralized. But what do I know, I'm just an elitist who uses a crystal ball right?

I'm sure your crystal ball told you that.

No.

"Zach, stop clinging to your anarcho-capitalist classics."
^The moment you stop avoiding them, I might consider it.

"Prices lower only if there are is supply to meet demand."
^Are you arguing that supply WOULDN'T meet demand?

"Education supply is not infinite."
^Why can't it be? Why can't, in a free society, other institutions who benefitted from a freer market enter the business of providing an education?

"If education is cheaper in the way you believe the market would provide, then there will not be high pay for teachers . Thus, teachers will be discouraged from the industry. Would you subsidize their pay to prevent that? That means education opportunities would be less available, and would have to be rationed by price based on intellectual competition. That is how it would be exclusionary."

^No. Let's say you have three schools. The first is very cookie-cutter, the second has somewhat of a negative reputation, and the third has a well-respected faculty and because the consumer considers these qualities to best fulfill his needs, he tends to go more towards the third school. Consumers (students) pay, capital structure is extended, wages rise.

"then there will not be high pay for teachers . Thus, teachers will be discouraged from the industry. Would you subsidize their pay to prevent that? That means education opportunities would be less available, and would have to be rationed by price based on intellectual competition. That is how it would be exclusionary."

^You are basically saying that a free market causes a lack of opportunity for some because education is a limited resource, yet how is education a limited resource? Again, where, in a free society, is the rule that maintains that only certain institutions could be schools? Oh wait, there is none. Except the kinds of monopolistic controls that only exist in a statist society.

"I am not a "liberal". Classically, yes. The fact that you think I am by default proves you would not do well in a purely competitive system. You are an ideologue who views the world through rigid principles and an inflexible mind."

^If you were defending the "virtues" of a bureaucratic government, you would be a liberal. That's fact. That's why neoconservatives are "neo", because they're LIBERAL conservatives. My mind is extremely flexible as well. I deviate with a lot of libertarians on MANY things. Maybe if you knew me you'd realize that, but you have to guess when it comes to your insults because you, in fact, don't.

"Actually, most people would agree that sophisticated language is a good trait. Actually, it is indicative of better education. People who are prone to mocking it are likely those that think they are so right they are above critique."

^Of course. I use big words too. But when you make a petty stupid insult about the way I write, I will respond in kind. Stick to the point at hand.

"For capitalism to flourish, there needs to be law for things such as property rights. Otherwise the market disappears."

^For one who claims to have read Rothbard, you obviously have not read "For a New Liberty." I highly recommend it, as it debunks the idea that the state is required to enforce property rights.

"Perhaps you find anarchy appealing, so I suggest you travel to Somalia to experience it first hand."
^The government collapsed in 1991, and afters years and years of socialism it takes TIME for the infrastructure to rebuild. Nothing can speed this up: any kind of IGO/gov intervention would only augment in the short term and hinder in the long term. There have been civil wars and untold violence in the region which has contributed to the decay. The CIA Factbook talks in depth about how the service industries, electronics industries, food markets, militia markets, etc. have flourished contrary to many expectations to the contrary. Peter Leeson did a study of Somalia where his data concluded that development and standard of living in Somalia under anarchy was IMPROVED since the state collapsed, and in comparison to neighboring African states. Again, those nations are poor, but this is a delayed process.

"And thank you for the straw man. I never said that I want "more" subsidies. "
^A straw man is when one makes up an exaggerated viewpoint and then attacks it. I did no such thing. I merely took your defense of subsidies and made a sort of prediction as to your views. I believe I was right. That is not a straw man.

"If you think an etch-a-sketch rewrite of the system would yield positive results, I cannot see how, as it would be heavily skewed against the disadvantaged. How useful is your view if it is entirely theoretical? How could it be transplanted into an established society?"
^So you are suggesting that the reason that anarchocapitalism is unworkable is simply because we couldn't implement it in today's society? That's a fallacy. It would be extremely difficult to implement only because we have a system literally strangled by regulation and bureaucracy. That in no way debunks anarchocapitalism. At all.

"Oddly enough, most who hold your views default to Von Mises or Rothbard in arguments. Again, it proves memory, nothing else. Maybe reading them opened your eyes, or something, but they are not biblical in any sense. "
^I could say the exact same thing about the Obama supporters in the mainstream papers who have been quoting Krugman as of late. Von Mises and Rothbard are sadly not as well known as they should be today, which prompts me bringing them up. I've read Man Economy and State and if you want to start getting into the nitty gritty, bring it on. I don't just "default" to their names. I KNOW their arguments and theories.

"Funny how you could not refute my comment about inflation, and only make the most basic of basic statements about economics."
^The dollar is being devalued. Of course. I understand that as inflation occurs, more fiat dollars are needed to equal the same wealth. There's nothing to refute.

"You start with the syllogism that the government caused all ills and that without it things would be different, therefore being anti-government is a virtuous thing. That is not a testable hypothesis."
^That's not a hypothesis. That's a SYNTHESIS of a whole host of ideas and ideals that I believe in. If you want to get into anything nitty-gritty, ask away.

"I'm sure your crystal ball told you that."
^Yup. I must have borrowed yours. You know, the one that told you I wouldn't have been able to go to the U in a free society. Right.

Kahn comments say it better then Post ever could

Listen to how she starts... " A student at a tax-supported institution can hardly complain about a representative who votes to raise the taxes required to support that institution." Wow, don't worry about how bad my polices are to the state as a whole because I'm bringing you the pork. Im sorry Kahn but this is one voter that you can't try to buy off as another one of your special interest groups.

Yep.

Basically I state it like this: politicians (usually Democrats) insist on involving government more and more in activities finer-suited for a free private sector, then when these policies have the opposite effect, they want MORE and say "You can't blame me!" when they want to rectify the problem with the same techniques that caused it.

2000 LP Party nominee Harry Browne had a great quote that pretty much sums it up: ""The federal government knows how to break your legs, hand you a crutch, and then say, 'If it weren't for the government, you wouldn't be able to walk."

And just one more note to "Anonymous", I am libertarian and anti-government but it's a position I came to after reading, researching, and learning a lot of stuff and after a lot of skepticism on my part. No doubt you're a typical Barack Obama (or even worse, John McCain) supporter and you can't get more "general" than that.

oh, you're so tough Justin.

see above.

Great comeback. Or perhaps

Great comeback. Or perhaps not.

Agreed

There is no reason why supply and demand of education would not meet in equilibirum in a free market society. If there was an excess of demand for schools the gap would be filled by new institutions seeing the opporunuties in the market. If too many schools existed and professors were earning "low salaries" because of this, schools would close that were less profitable thus raising the demand for other schools and raising wages. Competetion would also keep the quality of education higher because the future of all educational institutions would rely on attracting constumers (students). It's something pretty simple but something that anonymous doesn't seem to understand. Apart from economics reasoning their is a huge moral argument why taxes and subsides are wrong but I have a rough draft to write and its already late.

Part of the reason why we are paying over 16,000 dollars a year to go to the U is because of the subsidies given to it and also to the many individuals attending. It works the exact same way with our health care system. The more subsidies given, the less efficient and higher costs.

The free market is a beautiful thing.

Cosby

Chris my man!

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